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black mold

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what is the difference in splated maple and black mold maple??? anybody have any pictures???

i turned some quilted maple that had some pen line outline in black and some wood that was dark gray to light black is this black mold????? the rest of the wood turned amber with lemon oil finish and the black is there and the pen lines are nice in fact i like black pen lines but could do without the smugged black area

the black was in the blank when i bought it and i did not know to watch out for black mold, showing my ignorance on the subjict

i am curious and :confused: :confused:
 
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By my understanding, fungus amoungus comes in two main varieties. There are the line fungus and the stain fungus. The line ones move through the wood in a layer leaving a black, brown, or grey line when cut. This is the actual living line of fungus and dies as it dries.

All the other stuff is stain. This can come in a variety of colors and patterns but will generally be a more diffuse stain through the wood, reflecting a more diffuse growth pattern through the wood, rather than a nice clean line of growth.

The other fun part is that the line funguses are the ones that do the most damage to the wood, leaving it punky faster.

Any mycologists out there to correct or elaborate?

Dietrich
 
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what i have i believe is the blue stain

the question is do i get rid of the shavings so the stain will not spread to other turning blanks or am i overreacting i usually just bag the shavings, usually in plastic bag, and when i have several wheelbarrow loads take to road for trash pickup

i like the examples of todd, rob, and ron very interesting and hopefully definitely something to try
 
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I believe the mold spores are in the air and ground and are all around us. Should not matter if you get rid of the shavings today or a week from now. The trick to not getting blue stain is to have fresh cut wood and turn is soon and get it drying. In species like Norfolk Island Pine and Buckeye the blue stain is a favorable thing.
Hugh
 
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Spalted maple will put you in the hospital if you dont wear a mask. the bacterium can grow in your porus lung receptors or even act as a cofactor of enzymes, making you more suseptable to sickness, and its not a good thing. Thats a big enough difference to me :D
 
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Fungi are pretty particular about what they eat. Brown eats cellulose, white eats cellulose and lignin, blue eats mostly free sugar and simple starch.

None of them appear to have made the interspecies (kingdom?) leap to dine on lipids in lungs. They do produce toxins to control the competition, as do most molds. A lot of them are known as antibiotics. Allergic reactions possible.

If you check the literature cited, you'll note that the stuff is temperature and moisture-limited, so those shavings you produce should dry within hours at most to a point where the fungi no longer grow. As to spores, not a big adaptive advantage to hide them in wood, which is why the fruiting bodies appear on the surface, where the spores can disperse easily.

In short, those of us who burn wood for fuel, and store it in advance are not doomed.
 
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Cases Please?

jcooper said:
Spalted maple will put you in the hospital if you dont wear a mask. the bacterium can grow in your porus lung receptors or even act as a cofactor of enzymes, making you more suseptable to sickness, and its not a good thing. Thats a big enough difference to me :D

Mr. Cooper,

This has been a topic I've done a bit of exploration on, including contacts with several mycologists and infectious disease MD's, and I've not found a single reported case of human infection by white rot or blue stain fungi which are specific to wood, are exclusively cellulose and/or sugar-eaters, and are what cause spalting. There have been, on the other hand, any number of human fungal infections by other fungi that are often found in forest areas and on/in tree bark. The point here is that spalted wood of any kind has yet (as far as I know) to be shown to carry an increased risk of pulmonary fungal infection from the spalting fungus when compared with any other wood in rough form.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing, just asking for specific information, but you should note that fungi are not bacteria; 2 very different organisms. In fact, many fungi and molds are antibacterial.

Thanks,

Mark Mandell
 
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Bill Boehme

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jcooper said:
.......the bacterium can grow in your porus lung receptors or even act as a cofactor of enzymes, making you more suseptable to sickness.......
As Mark mentioned, fungi are not bacteria. Also, regardless of whether wood fungi can bond with enzymes as a cofactor, enzymes do not act as immune system suppressants -- that function is controlled by a group of proteins known as interferons.

I would like to speculate on one of Mark's statements, however. I believe that there is a possibility of spalted wood producing extremely fine dust when turned due to deterioration of the wood cells and that could be a potential health hazard.

Bill
 
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boehme said:
I would like to speculate on one of Mark's statements, however. I believe that there is a possibility of spalted wood producing extremely fine dust when turned due to deterioration of the wood cells and that could be a potential health hazard.

Bill,

Cell microbiology aside, your point needs no speculation; we (all woodworkers) should be well aware of the dust hazzard in our shops by now. I don't think, however, that most turners realize how much extremely fine particles are released into the air even while "rough cutting" on the lathe. This is where the "stuff you don't see is the worst" comes ever truer because we see those shavings flying and figure "I can't breath that so I'm fine." What we don't see is those streams of sub-micron particles coming off our gouge point and wafting through the air around us. Mistake here to use a dust mask only when sanding.

I haven't examined spalted wood fibers under a scope, but I have no doubt your observation is correct. With the fungus degrading the cellulose and the lignin, it will, at least be easier to produce increased amounts of microparticles when cutting that material. As one with a confirmed allergy to tree and leaf mold, I can confirm your point about allergic reactions, because the MD's that I've consulted have each told me that I have an increased sensitivity to molds and fungal spores in my shop. That's why I use two recirculating air cleaners with micro filters, a 6" outside-exhaust DC system, and two dehumidifiers in my basement studi, um, shop. I also use a mask, but not, perhaps, as often as I should.

M
 
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Sometimes it's difficult to sort through the latest conventional wisdom and match it with observation. Wood dust and its dangers appears to be one of the tougher pieces of conventional wisdom.

It's obvious, even from the questionable post-hoc "study" of woodworkers and lung disease that the asbestosis/silicosis model is inappropriate. Inorganic particles do actual observable mechanical damage to the lungs. Literally death by a billion cuts. It's also obvious that the inhalation of cellulose is not the proper model. "Brown lung," or byssinosis, an asthma caused by occupational exposure to cellulose dust, and here we're talking large amounts of visible dust by workers in the cotton and rope-making industries (yep, hemp can be bad for you) over many years, would seem a better model, but it does not produce the same set of problems as experienced by wood-workers in the infamous study.

Studies done after the OSHA survey have failed to validate the original, though if the assumption is made that exposure to the chemicals in wood and used in woodworking are the culprit, things begin to fit the pattern. So it appears that it's not the dust which is the danger, but the fumes from chemicals, as wood-workers in sawmills sawing large quantities of softwood are the most affected, even those sawing or stacking wet wood, where dust is not likely to become airborne other than briefly. If you think sanding dust is fine, consider how much finer terpene and phenol molecules are.

So what does it mean to us as turners? Dust is annoying, but what we can smell is most dangerous, because smell is a chemical sense. What the dust carries, especially in dark, extractive-loaded durable woods like the tropical species which are loaded with biological insecticides and fungicides, can cause asthma, allergies, and even permanent damage. Won't stop our passion for such exotics, of course, but probably doesn't cause as much problem as neglecting to put on that charcoal cartridge when spraying or applying solvent finishes in close quarters. Still, we need not agonize over dust in the shop. It only becomes really dangerous to us when we track it upstairs onto the spouse's territory.
 
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Dust seems to be hazardous even if it is not proven. Totally agree that if you track it into the house you could be in mortal danger!

I was reading somewhere that the air sacs (alveoli) become less effective as one ages. And there are less of them. With age, airway obstruction may also be partially due to an accumulation of inflammatory injuries. a good reference

It seems to me that whenever I cut myself, and the skin heals, the resulting scar is less elastic than the original skin. Maybe the lungs work in a similar way. If we clog them with dust and some of the dust removal causes alveoli damage and repair then potentially they could become less effective. Maybe the chemicals in some wood dust is worse in different species.

One thing is clear. If you use dust masks (or a powered dust mask) then it is easier to breath at the end of the day. And you don't have all that stuff coming out of your nasal passage. (Plus you save on tissues!)
 
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Jeff I was reading somewhere that the air sacs (alveoli) become less effective as one ages. It seems to me that whenever I cut myself said:
Lungs sag for the same reason you get a wattle under your chin and bags under your triceps - loss of elastin. It's called getting old. A condition which, as I sometimes have to remind myself in the morning after a busy day's activity, is still ahead of the alternative. I wonder every spring if working outdoors will build enough muscle to hide the bags or the sun blend those "spots" on my arms.

Scar tissue is a result of asbestos/silicos(is) that's for sure. Once again, organic fiber doesn't do that. Bless your mucous, it's what catches and retains the vast majority of that dust you breathe. Don't breathe through your mouth, and you have a well-designed set of chambers which provide turbulent flow and dust catching/elimination in depth.

If you get behind on your hygiene, remind the spouse that the hairs in your nose are defending your lungs ... as you get out the trimmer.
 
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