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Need an easy finish

Joined
Nov 27, 2020
Messages
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Location
Azle, Texas
I've been finishing my bowls with "shine juice". It works okay if I just keep it really thin, but it's sheen doesn't seem to last very long. I have also thickly applied it and it turned out well, but took 3 days to get it done. I am looking for a high gloss finish that is super tough, super easy (preferably can be applied while on the lathe), and super fast. It seems that "food safe" is a non-negotiable for buyer's at my price point. Thanks for your help guys, this is a good community.
 

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Joined
Jun 29, 2017
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Location
Jasper, Alabama
James, only thing that comes to my mind is Howard's Feed & Wax. You finish your piece with it and wait for about 30 minutes for it to dry...........then you buff it. You use as many coats as you need for the shine that you won't.....

I personalty don't use it but people who do really like it......... I use Danish Oil on most all of my pieces but it is not a quick process. :D Happy turning!
 
Joined
Oct 25, 2020
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Location
Minneapolis, MN
Super tough, super fast, super easy, high gloss. Hmmm.

I don't know what "shine juice" is. Anyway, most surface finishes will be food contact safe after a month of curing. A built up, cured surface finish is nothing more than coat of plastic. Most food and drink containers are some form of plastic, so buyers who insist on food safe are simply without knowledge. They probably have a plastic water bottle with them as they poo-poo woodworking finishes.

Anyway, shellac is natural, builds fast on the surface, and can give a high gloss. Alcohol will dissolve it, though, so be careful with food contact pieces. Not the toughest.

Lacquer- I can't speak to it enough, but it is a surface finish, and can give a high gloss. Some versions can be fast and tough. Best for food? I don't know.

Varnishes, and there are a thousand different varnishes. Osmo, Minwax, General, Waterlox, Tried & True, all "Danish oils", and on and on. But all of them have a solvent (petrochemical or water) to make them a liquid for application, and which evaporate out leaving the plastic film. And they have the plastic film resin itself (phenolics, if still available, and alkyds and polyurethanes being most common), and if oil based, the oil (linseed, tung, or other unidentified vegetable oils) will penetrate the wood, can change the tone of the wood, and with enough coats will cure on the surface through polymerization into... a coat of plastic. Unless specifically stated as a warning on the can by the manufacturer, with a month of cure time any finish should be fine for food contact.

Hop on Amazon and order Bob Flexner's upcoming 3rd edition of his book "Understanding Wood Finishing". It hits the street in the coming days. It is the bible of wood finishing and will serve you well.
 
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
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Location
Colorado Springs, CO
For small objects that won’t be handled a lot, such as ornaments, friction polish is fast and can develop a high gloss. However, it isn’t very durable and it’s hard to get an even finish on larger items.

Back in Dec there was a forum topic, “instant gratification - finishing.” which seemed to me to equate “quick” with less quality and durability. Thanks to that forum topic, I’ve started using a blend similar to what Sam Maloof espoused - a mix of tung oil, a varnish (like Danish Oil), and polyurethane. I soak my pieces (at least keep them wet) for a half hour to an hour, then wipe and store in my den to cure. Normally in the high and dry mountains curing takes a week or so. Then I finish by buffing. While I wait for piece #1 to cure, I turn pieces #2 through 9 or 10. Yes, it takes a week or two from start to finish, but it only takes about two person-hours per item spread over that time period. My boxes and bowls look a lot better than ones I did with lacquer.
 
Joined
Apr 11, 2014
Messages
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Location
Dallas, TX
James,
Super fast, super tough, super easy, applied on the lathe, and food safe is, I think, asking a lot.
QUESTION TO THE FORUM:
Is there a product that would come close other than epoxy?

I has been my understanding that products that cure are safe, even the super toxic stuff I use.
I've heard walnut oil is food-safe as long as it is scrubbed / renewed periodically.

If you claim your bowl is "food safe", are you certifying with your good name that it can be used to toss a salad? Mash potatoes? Make meat-balls? Store those meat-balls for a few days in the fridge?
 

Emiliano Achaval

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Joined
Dec 14, 2015
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Location
Maui, Hawaii
Website
hawaiiankoaturner.com
James,
Super fast, super tough, super easy, applied on the lathe, and food safe is, I think, asking a lot.
QUESTION TO THE FORUM:
Is there a product that would come close other than epoxy?

I has been my understanding that products that cure are safe, even the super toxic stuff I use.
I've heard walnut oil is food-safe as long as it is scrubbed / renewed periodically.

If you claim your bowl is "food safe", are you certifying with your good name that it can be used to toss a salad? Mash potatoes? Make meat-balls? Store those meat-balls for a few days in the fridge?
As a bowl maker, I would not honor my lifetime warranty if you tell me you had the bowl in the refrigerator with anything for a few days. I tell my new clients how to take care of the bowl, my collectors, they already know.
 
Joined
Feb 26, 2019
Messages
467
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236
Location
Lebanon, Missouri
I am looking for a high gloss finish that is super tough, super easy (preferably can be applied while on the lathe)

If you develop this finish, be sure to patent it before telling anyone - none exists today or in the past. Perhaps not “super” in all aspects, but CA glue may be something you should try. There are different formulas on the market, mainly viscosity and open time. No expert on them, but can be pretty fast. Sanding and buffing the film finish is required. Be sure to look up Mark Silay when researching - he does ca finish a bit differently than others.
 
Joined
Jan 20, 2020
Messages
189
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45
Location
Larimore, ND
Fast and easy, EEE works extremely fast, use their polish after using EEE, and it gives a heck of a glossy shine Put on while on lathe, work it in (fairly fast) then buff. Can't answer as to longevity, I'm a new turner and have started using clear shellac on just about everything. Not inexpensive but won't break the bank:

https://www.rockler.com/eee-ultra-s...ucts&msclkid=a541bdf66de711391196ddcb7782ada3

https://www.rockler.com/shellawax-liquid-friction-polish

Those are an example, it can be found on a few store sites including Amyzon.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 7, 2016
Messages
9
Likes
3
Location
Webberville, Michigan
Lately I've been using a new (to me) product that I'm super pleased with. It's "Emmet's Good Stuff" made by Bally Block Co. I thought it was "food safe" but the container doesn't state that. It's a wipe on gel. I believe it's polyurethane-based. It dries pretty fast (not as fast as shellac but I can get 2-3 coats on in a couple hours).
 
Joined
Feb 26, 2019
Messages
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Location
Lebanon, Missouri
Emmet’s is a gel poly product. Old Master’s (what I have used) and General Finishes have a gel poly also. Easy to use but takes a week or so to fully cure out. Dries and cures faster than wipe on poly, at least the 1st coat, because it does not penetrate as deeply. Can be used over or under wipe on poly. More of a satin finish, but can be buffed to a good gloss after fully cured.
 
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
33
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13
Location
Spartanburg, Tennessee
Fast and easy, EEE works extremely fast, use their polish after using EEE, and it gives a heck of a glossy shine Put on while on lathe, work it in (fairly fast) then buff. Can't answer as to longevity, I'm a new turner and have started using clear shellac on just about everything. Not inexpensive but won't break the bank:

https://www.rockler.com/eee-ultra-s...ucts&msclkid=a541bdf66de711391196ddcb7782ada3

https://www.rockler.com/shellawax-liquid-friction-polish

Those are an example, it can be found on a few store sites including Amyzon.
Ditto-I love EEE and Shellawax on pens and some spindle work, and I'm sure it would work equally well on bowls.
 
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
5
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7
Location
Newport, NC
As a 40 year professional in the coatings industry I can tell you that without question that just because a finish dries hard and doesn’t smell does not make it food safe! There are things called “extractables” that are either naturally occurring or added that impart certain characteristics but can be pulled back out of the finish by liquids, sugars or fats. The list is too long to include but most of these you don’t want in your stomach. There are testing organizations like UL and NSF who verify that finishes and materials in contact with drinking water and liquid beverages are safe based on USDA and FDA standards. If you knew what plastic pipe manufacturers pay for this testing you would wonder how they can sell the pipe so cheap - I do! And, correcting something posted above, drying oils like Tung and Linseed do not form “plastic”. They form hardened oil. How that oil hardens can make it safe or highly toxic. Generally, the faster it hardens, the more additives (and potential extractables) it has in it. The only things you will find on my food service wooden things is true, boiled linseed oil and beeswax. I have an unlimited supply of free, high tech finishes with 500+ to choose from. I pay for Tried and True bowl finish or one of several Behelen’s products.
 
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
294
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283
Location
Hoodsport, Washington
I have been using resithane plus pre catalyzed lacquer (water based) Dries very fast, is easy to sand, is non toxic, and is extremely durable. I cut it 60/40 with denatured alcohol for wiping on. It is it's own sealer; Takes a bit of practice to get it right on the lathe though. For utility bowls that have direct contact with food; I always use mahoney's walnut oil, followed by his walnut oil wax.
 
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
5
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7
Location
Newport, NC
Mark,
It’s up to each manufacturer to assume the liability and make the claim that their product is food safe by listing that on their product data sheet. The FDA doesn’t test formulated materials. While there’s no “list” of coatings that that I know of, the FDA does publish a list of chemicals that are acceptable for use in formulating coatings that will be in contact with food. Here’s the list; https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/cfrsearch.cfm?fr=175.300

The USDA publishes a separate list for use in surface coatings that will come into contact with meats, fish and poultry.

Most folks will find the chemical names intimidating but most of these either react with another component(s) in the formula or evaporate completely.

There’s yet another set of regulations governing coatings that will come in contact with potable water and these list acceptable levels of “extractables” that is measured in the water after the test is completed. These are the tests performed by UL and NSF.

I sell 20-30 different coatings for these uses but most are intended for application to metals,or concrete. Since most of these are pigmented, hard, impermeable, film-forming epoxy type materials I don’t use them on wood. I am playing with 1 clear epoxy that is extremely flexible (for an epoxy) on some salad mixing bowls to see how they hold up. So far, so good but it’s going to need to be bulletproof to compete with an oil finish.

Because maintaining a complicated or exotic finish on wood can be challenging with regard to surface preparation, my go-to finish is an oil/wax combination. I’ve brewed up some various mixtures of bees wax, carnuba wax, orange oil, lemon oil, mineral oil, coconut oil and true BLO without drying agents. The resulting “pastes” are easy to apply and when I give someone a gift that I’ve finished with it, I also give them a 2 oz container of the paste. I tell them to put the piece in a 150 degree oven and warm it until they can just barely hold it with bare hands and then wipe on the paste. So far, everyone has loved both the gifts and the paste that allows them to maintain the piece.
 
Joined
Dec 26, 2011
Messages
128
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67
Location
Biloxi, Mississippi
Simple works best for me. I have tried several different finishes and have settled on the following two choices.

For food safe items I use Doctor’s Woodshop walnut oil and carnuba wax finish. It is easy to use and buffs to a nice, lustrous finish.

For other items I use a 50/50 mix of Minwax tung oil and Minwax wipe on poly. (I can already anticipate some of the comments). However, once again, easy to use, no fumes like lacquer, and buffs to a terrific shine.
 
Joined
Feb 26, 2019
Messages
467
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Location
Lebanon, Missouri
or other items I use a 50/50 mix of Minwax tung oil and Minwax wipe on poly. (I can already anticipate some of the comments). However, once again, easy to use, no fumes like lacquer, and buffs to a terrific shine.
Why do you use the “tung oil”? Cant prove it, since mw doesnt provide a pds anymore, only sds, but I dont think there is any tung oil in it. Have you put a drop of each finish on a nonporous surface and let dry? Is the “tung oil” more water clear vs the yellowish color of the poly? I think its a varnish with soya oil which is lighter in color vs linseed oil.

I use a lot of reg mw poly thinned 1:1, pretty much the same as their wipe on. Im curious what you believe the benefit of the “tung oil finish” is.
 
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
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33
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13
Location
Spartanburg, Tennessee
I don't know about its durability yet, but I've been using Yorkshire Grit as a final sanding step beyond 400 or 600 and getting stunning results without anything else over it. That said, I am experimenting with homemade shine juice, which as everyone knows polishes up to a high gloss, but not very durable, especially with liquids or handling.

I too am looking at the different food-safe finishes for bowls that I hear today's customers often insist on.
 
Joined
Dec 26, 2011
Messages
128
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Location
Biloxi, Mississippi
I tried the 30/30/30 mixture of poly/pure tung oil/mineral spirits after reading Tom Wirsing’s article on Museum Quality Finish in a 2018 AAW magazine (sorry, I can’t remember the month). I think Tom gave credit for this mix to Sam Maaloof, a furniture maker.

It worked well for me. It appeared to have little or no lamination effect between layers when buffing/polishing that sometimes occurs with straight poly. Touch up and “ding” repair is easier than with straight poly too. I got lazy and tried a 50/50 mix of the wipe on poly and “tung oil” mixture. The results appeared about the same as the 30/30/30 mix mentioned above. Both the wipe on poly and “tung oil“ are available at most big box and hardware stores. You can purchase small quantities (I like fresh finishes), the containers are easy to store, and the screw-caps make pouring easy. So for me, it is mostly a convenience “thing”. By the way, I don’t know if there is any real tung oil in the stuff I buy or not, but I get an acceptable finish that is durable.

One other point. I am a big fan of lacquer. However, I can’t take the fumes anymore and started looking for a less “fumey” finish. I tried water based finishes, but missed the “golden glow” of oils. This latest mixture seems to be an acceptable solution.

In closing, let me acknowledge that finishes are a very personal choice for each turner. My solution may not work for you. The value of this forum is learning from others and adapting their ideas to my own work. Continually learning and occasionally achieving success from applying your ideas is what keeps me coming back to the forum. Thanks for helping me on my journey!
 
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